Topic: Mikishawm and others - can you help me clear out the DC Hell?
posted October 23, 2000 04:42 PM
Hello again, Mikishawm (and anyone else that is able to help). As some of you may
know, I've been putting together a biography of the Hell of the DC Universe
for months. As always with works in progress, it just gets more and more
complicated the more you learn. And I need a few completing bits of info
here. Especially regarding some of the Hellspawn.
This bio is mainly made for Kim Jensen's Unofficial DC Guide. Of course,
I'll give credit where credit is due.
If you can (and want to, and have the time), please give me some information about
the following demons:
1. Barbatos (Books of Magic)
2. Biis (Azrael)
3. Greeramada (Arak) (was she even from Hell?)
4. Nebiros (Swamp Thing, Blue Devil, Books of Magic)
5. Can I also get a
little info about the Carnivore's minions from SUPERGIRL? As a relatively new
Supergirl reader, I wonder if there ever was anything revealed about the
origins of, for example, Murmur, Mister Stubbs, and that child that was
"healed" by the false father of the "S". Issues #49 and
#50 seemed to imply that most of Carnivore's people were demons from Hell? Is that so?
6. Etrigan once tried to
use an artifact called the Crown of Thorns to appoint himself King of Hell.
What can you tell me about this Crown?
7. Also, can you give me
the first appearance and the current status of Merlin/Myrddin in the DCU?
I think that's about it for now. If I may, I'll ask a few more questions
(mostly regarding first appearances) later on.
Thank you in advance.
posted October 23, 2000 04:55 PM
Nebiros was in Swamp Thing?
I do remember him from
Blue Devil (wherein he thought of Dan Cassidy as his "little
brother" and "helped him" by firing a mystic blast merging him
and his suit...all happening in Blue Devil #1...he also faced off with
Zatanna and Dan later in the series)
Yes, the folks that were tormenting Supergirl were demons (and revealed in the
issues you mentioned...)
...as for the rest...MIKISHAWM, where are you?
posted October 23, 2000 08:13 PM
I doubt that I'll have much time to work on this until the weekend but here are a
bunch of appearances for you to work with. As for Merlin, his first
appearance was waaay back in NEW COMICS # 3. I'm not sure what to make of the
whole Myrddin bit in HELLBLAZER so I've filed that sequence under variants
for the time being.
I shall return!
The Books of Faerie: Molly's Story # 2-4
The Books of Magic # 5, 8, 15-16, 17 (behind the scenes), 18-20, 65, 68-70, 73-74
The Books of Magic Annual # 3
Batman: Sword of Azrael # 1-4
Supergirl (fourth series) # 19 (behind the scenes), 22 (behind the scenes), 30 (?), 32, 35-37,
39, 45, 46 (behind the scenes), 47-50
Arak, Son of Thunder # 17-18
MERLIN I (Merlin Emrys; Earth-Two):
Adventure Comics # 66, 107, 124, 132, 137-138, 142, 144-145, 148, 153, 159, 165
All-Star Comics # 64-65
Batman # 36
New Comics # 3
Wonder Woman (first series) # 54 (imposter ?)
MERLIN I (Earth-S):
Hit Comics # 32
MERLIN I (Earth-One; a.k.a. THE BLACK KNIGHT I):
Adventure Comics # 268, 395-396, 462
The Brave and The Bold # 13, 21-22, 109, 137
The Demon (first series) # 1-2, 4-7
Justice League of America # 2
Robin Hood Tales # 10
Showcase # 6 (descendant)
Superboy # 103, 110
Super Friends # 20
Supergirl (first series) # 1 (behind the scenes)
Superman's Girl Friend, Lois Lane # 31 (mention)
Tales of the Unexpected # 6
World's Finest Comics # 162, 265
MERLIN I (Earth-3000):
Camelot 3000 # 1-8, 10-12
MERLIN I (current):
Action Comics Weekly # 638-641
All-Star Squadron # 62
Batman # 544
The Books of Magic (first series) # 1; (second series) 4
The Demon (second series) # 1-4; (third series) 1, 4-7, 11, 19-20, 35, 38-39, 51, 0, 52-53
Hellblazer Annual # 1
JLA Annual # 4
Secret Origins # 12 (flashback: descendant)
Superman (second series) # 55
Swamp Thing (second series) # 87
Wonder Woman (second series) # 124-127, 129, 131-135
MERLIN I (Earth-496):
Speed Demon # 1
MERLIN I (Earth-992):
Adventures In The DC Universe # 15
MERLIN I (Earth-97):
Tangent Comics/ The Batman # 1
MERLIN I (variants):
Adventure Comics # 91
All-Star Squadron # 48
Batman: Dark Knight of the Round Table # 1-2
Batman/Demon: A Tragedy
Hellblazer # 110-114
Justice League Europe Annual # 2
My Greatest Adventure # 15
Mystery In Space # 111
Plop! # 8
Strange Sports Stories # 3
Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen # 29
Supergirl (fourth series) # 33, 45, 50
Swamp Thing (first series) # 15
NEBIROS II (Earth-One):
Blue Devil # 1, 4-5
Who's Who '86 # 16
NEBIROS II (current):
Day of Judgment # 3-4
Fate # 12-13
Secret Origins # 24
Showcase '93 # 4-6
Supergirl (fourth series) # 22, 32, 35-37, 45
posted October 24, 2000 02:08 AM
Originally posted by Mikishawm:
As for Merlin...
MERLIN I (Merlin Emrys; Earth-Two):
Adventure Comics # 66, 107, 124, 132, 137-138, 142, 144-145, 148, 153, 159, 165
* I assume that these are all appearances in the Shining Knight series or
flashbacks in the same?
All-Star Comics # 64-65
* I believe that this is a disguise of Vandal Savage
MERLIN I (current):
All-Star Squadron # 62
* This is just a retelling of The Shining Knight's origin from Adventure# 66
MERLIN I (variants):
All-Star Squadron# 48
* This was either a Merlin robot or Wotan disguised as Merlin ( sorry, dont
have my All-Star Squadron Index handy )
... and you also forgot
the one panel appearance of Merlin in Crisis On Infinite Earths... actually
he was Vandal Savage disguised as Merlin again, but this is the 6th Century
Vandal, not the time-traveling Vandal of the All-Star Comics story...
With so many people pretending to be Merlin, its a wonder that he had to do
anything at all...
And Hellstone, great
work on your Who's Who entries... always love reading them... and thanks to
Tenz for his hard work in preparing the site...
...now if i could only find the notes for my updated 12 Years to Present Timeline....
posted October 24, 2000 05:22 AM
Hmmm...Wasn't Nebiros in Books of Magic, too?
And did the "child-demon" in Supergirl have a name?
Anyway, thank you for the appearance list, Mikishawm. And for the added information,
Datalore. You guys are the best.
Zilch - long time no see.
Thank you for the praise.
posted October 24, 2000 09:03 AM
Hellstone, no problem.
You guys are the masters of data...I'm simply a humble servant.
Odd question, have you been working with any of the folks at West End Games
(the DCU RPG)?
They have a DC "Book of Magic" on their schedule (some time next
year...unfortunately, they are NOT good at MEETING their schedules).
And, memory doesn't give me a name for the adult Wally that Supergirl faced other
than "Walter"...but don't quote me on that. I think he was just the Carnivore...
posted October 24, 2000 07:14 PM
Zilch, thanks for the annotation! Yep, the ADVENTURE COMICS appearances are all in
the Shining Knight series, mostly in episodes after Sir Justin was able to
travel back and forth through time.
The Merlin in ALL-STAR COMICS # 64-65 was the genuine article, though he was
revealed in # 65 to be under the spell of Vandal Savage. Savage was impersonating
King Arthur as was Wotan in ALL-STAR SQUADRON # 48. The Merlin variant in the latter
issue was, as you recalled, a robot.
As for CRISIS, I checked but only found Vandal Savage (no Merlin) in the Camelot
sequence in # 4.
Hellstone, I made a quick scan of the BOOKS OF MAGIC mini-series but found no obvious
sign of Nebiros but I may have missed a cameo. The child-demon doesn't appear to have a name.
posted October 29, 2000 07:36 PM
This isn't everything you asked for but here are a few details from SUPERGIRL:
The man with the dirty
blonde hair and the narrow face covered with stubble was a demon. At one
point, Buzz Aldrin had the red flesh, solid green eyes and antennae on his
forehead that you'd expect of an evil entity but those details weren't
condusive to his blending in one Earth.
"A couple of years back
... Lucifer closed up Hell. All the demons, every damned soul, cleared out.
Most of them, the dummies, went to Earth, since that's where Lucifer went.
But a handful trod the universe, and ONE ... one became a business man. He
became an agent of chaos ... You see, stirring up trouble was in his NATURE.
Now, he could do so while protecting his future.
"But as chaotic as he
was, he needed an OPPOSITE. A force of ORDER to OPPOSE him. A heavenly being
to balance his hellishness ... You see, the demon, he had ties to humanity
for he WAS human once. So the ANGEL needed ties to HUMANITY as well.
And whereas the demon, believe it or not, had a streak of GOOD he fought to
overcome ... so did the glowing angel require a streak of EVIL" (SUPERGIRL
(fourth series) # 8).
It was Buzz who was
responsible, intentionally or not, for the artificial being known as
Supergirl merging with a dying young woman named Linda Danvers during a
botched ritual to bring the demonic Lord Chakat to Earth (SG # 1)
Chakat was a
fire-breathing, towering orange cat-like demon with an assortment of horns on
his head. A second ceremony nearly brought him to Earth until Supergirl
knocked him back into his own dimension, "a realm that stinks of distant
Chakat roared that "for centuries, I've been on the run ... hunted, hounded,
ALWAYS hounded." Once Supergirl drew blood, she learned just how accurate his
description was. A pair of similarly gigantic dogs arrived, announcing that
the heroine had "put us on your scent." Supergirl made her exit, leaving Lord
C to his fate (SG # 2).
Eventually, Buzz made his
move on Supergirl, transforming a local man named Dick Malverne into a
near-nude cyclonic entity named Tempus. The pale-fleshed being carried a
scythe in each of its shadowy black hands and had a black hourglass tattooed
on his chest. Each time he struck the weapons together, a burst of hellfire
blasted forward. "Time heals all wounds," he observed at one point, "but not
THIS time, and not these wounds."
The Chaos Lords (speaking
through Tempus) had contracted Buzz to deliver a fallen angel (Supergirl) and
they were now concerned that their agent had jeopardized the deal by
developing "feelings for her." Tempus finally managed to goad Supergirl into
a rage angry enough to kill their host body but the intervention of Buzz made
her hesitate and pull back. The infuriated Chaos Lords vanished in a rush of
fire and wind, taking Buzz with them (SG # 9).
In fact, Buzz had split
himself in two, with part of his spirit inhabiting Dick Malverne. Once Linda
Danvers had begun to fall in love with the young man, Buzz revealed himself,
correctly guessing that Supergirl would agree to rescue his other half from
the Chaos Lords rather than risk Dick's life.
Thanks to Buzz's magic,
Supergirl arrived in the desolate Chaos prison, a massive ice cluster
suspended in outer space. The glacial orb was filled with "people ... or ...
or ... souls ... or ... something ... from races all over the galaxy ...
frozen, flies in amber ... hundreds ... thousands of them ..." Freeing one of
the entities, the Girl of Steel was attacked by a gray-brown demoness with
orange reptilian eyes. "Innocent beings these are not. This is a place for
The prison was presided
over by the reptilian creature known as the Unholy, whose head was a mass of
tentacled red eyes. Using the Unholy's own sword, Supergirl cut off all of
the appendages and blinded it. As the cyclonic Chaos Lords tore away the
Unholy for its failure, the Girl of Steel fled back to Earth with Buzz's
other half. As he walked away, Buzz revealed that his presence in Dick
Malverne had arrested the cancer that was ravaging his body. The disease was
now back in full force (SG # 43).
During Buzz's absence
between SG # 9 and 42, Supergirl had faced other demonic entities, beginning
with Daemon, a shadowy incubus in a purple cape who entered the dreams of
women. The one-time acquaintance of Buzz finally confronted Supergirl in one
of her own dreams and paid the price.
"You hold most girls in a
grip of terror. They're so terrified by what you are, they don't know they
can resist. They don't realize you've entered their dreams. And in my dreams,
I make the rules. Rule number ONE: You don't stand up unless I tell you to. ...
Rule number TWO: You don't speak unless I tell you to. Rule number THREE --
and this is an IMPORTANT one -- all the plumbing in my dreams contains HOLY
WATER." A shrieking Daemon was burned away to a skeleton (SG # 13).
And then there was Satan
Girl (SG # 40-41), a red-haired woman who wore a mask of bone and used a
trident that fired electric blue energy. Some two hundred years earlier,
Dolores Pratchet claimed to have practiced satanic arts with her partner, a
female slave named Ember. Eventually, Ember was burned at the stake but
Dolores' daughter Rachel rushed to the side of her beloved friend and died
with her. In that moment, the two women merged to become an Earth-born angel.
The grieving Dolores
performed an occult ritual that night and was granted the powers of Satan
Girl by the Carnivore. "Ember and I clashed repeatedly as years rolled past
into centuries. But Ember wasted her powers. She rose only to battle me, but
almost NEVER to help others. Eventually, my ritualistic slaying of thirteen
children sent Ember over the edge and she SLEW me with my own weapon. Ember
... as a result fell into the darkness of the pit that claims ALL fallen
While trying to learn the
origin of Ember, Supergirl was involuntarily substituted with her in the past
on the eve of her execution and transformation. The deviation in the
time-stream also resurrected Satan Girl, who faced Ember in the present and
made a futile attempt to sustain the altered timeline and be reunited with
her lost Rachel. In the end, Ember returned to her fate, Satan Girl crumbled
to dust and Supergirl watched as Rachel and Ember escaped the pit and rose to
Heaven (SG # 41).
Other agents of the
Carnivore included Murmur, a dark blue skinned man with red eyes who wore
golden armor, wielded a similar axe and rode a mythological Gryphon.
He shrugged off Supergirl's heat vision and telekinesis and claimed to feel
pity "for your particular species. Not mortal, not angelic, but something in
between." Supergirl finally concluded that their battle was less physical
than "a test of will. Of who believes more in their cause. A distillation of
winning and losing into a matter of pure conviction." Murmur vanished as
Supergirl smashed him to the ground (SG # 33).
Also of note was Stubbs,
a short, bearded black man with spectacles that hid his crimson eyes. He
served as the Carnivore's right hand man (SG # 22, 32, 35-37, 45) but his
role was far greater than that. As the Master Forger, he was responsible for
the creation of all the weapons in their unholy arsenal, from Murmur's axe to
an obsidian sword that doubled as an umbrella (SG # 37).
The Carnivore, in his own words, was "Carreau, ex-prince of the order of powers.
When the first vampires rose from the Earth ... I WAS THERE! When the first
demon worshippers called during their Sabbaths into darkness ... I WAS THERE!
When Sister Seraphica of Loundun was possessed ... I WAS THERE!" He was, in
short, "a creature who was the symbol of ALL that Heaven reviled"(SG # 50).
The realm of the
Carnivore was the other-dimensional Between City. Buzz explained that "the
Carnivore built this city in a corner of the between. It's a haven for other
fallen ones such as myself. ... Hell is for those who were cast down. The
Between City is for those who left voluntarily" (SG # 45).
On Earth, the Carnivore
operated as Carl Carnivean, owner of the Atlas Corporation ("We Carry the
Weight of the World"; first seen in SG # 19). It was Carnivean who funded the
creation of the metahuman Zed One (SG # 22), retrieved the Matrix residue
that was once part of Supergirl (# 31) and brought Andrea (Comet) Martinez
under his control (SG # 39). He even formed an alliance with Lex Luthor (SG #
35), who was chilled when Carnivean thurst his umbrella sword into one of his
pawns, Judah, simply to make a point (no pun intended; SG # 45). The man who
once worked with Neron was sufficiently horrified as to sever his partnership
("I should have HEEDED my instincts.") and attempted to warn Supergirl (SG #
The Carnivore believed
that the only way Supergirl could be defeated was to gradually humble her,
forcing her into one hopeless situation (SG # 32) after another. The death of
Dick Malverne and the events spiralling out from it were the final straw.
Supergirl surrendered without a struggle (SG # 48).
With the three Earth-born
angels, Blithe, Comet and Supergirl, in his control, the Carnivore took
control of Heaven (SG # 49). The three angels shook off the darkness and took
the war to the streets of the Between City. In a final conflict, Supergirl
was stabbed through the heart by the Carnivore's obsidian sword. Despite his
evil, she forgave him of his sins, thereby sentencing him to oblivion (SG #
Left unexplained was the
Carnivore's uncanny similarity to Wally Johnson, a young boy whom Supergirl
had met earlier and who claimed to be God (SG # 4-6, 9, 11-12, 15, 17-19,
25). The Carnivore claimed to be unfamiliar with the boy (SG # 35, 50) but,
in the wake of the battle, Wally sent a letter to Linda Danvers, offering his
best wishes and hints of things to come (# 50).
posted November 05, 2000 06:44 PM
More answers ...
At some in the past, the
Vertigo Universe and the DC Universe split off from one another, still
intersecting on occasion but largely maintaining separate lines of history. Each
world possesses distinct incarnations of several figures, among them Cupid
(BOOKS OF MAGIC # 27), Hephaestus (SHADE # 41) and Zeus (BOOKS OF MAGIC #
69), each of whom is quite different from the DCU George Perez model. And
then there's Merlin.
One Vertigo account
related that Merlin had raised Kon-Sten-Tyn, an ancestor of John Constantine,
to succeed King Arthur. When the wizard told his charge that his kingdom
would never thrive, the monarch set Merlin ablaze and preserved only his
still-living head. Years later, Kon-Sten-Tyn destroyed even that, finally
permitting the mage to go on to the afterlife (1989's HELLBLAZER ANNUAL # 1).
Another narrative described a split between Merlin (or Myrrdin) and Arthur,
with the latter going into hiding with a box -- the Holy Grail -- that was
said to contain the secret of why God had "abandoned (Earth's first
immortals) in favor or mortal man." In 1997, Myrrdin launched a series of
attacks on the world's places of power, ruthlessly killing and brutalizing
innocents in the process. "He wishes to destroy the energy lines ... to
remove the print of God's touch ... so that God must relinquish his hold ...
upon this world. Myrrdin cannot do this without the box" (HELLBLAZER # 111).
Myrrdin finally gained
possession of the Grail only to immediately drop it and begin writhing in
agony. The box had been intended to destroy the immortals, a returning King
Arthur explained, because "you were not flawed, or imperfect. You were TOO
perfect ... cast too closely in His image." Arthur had taken the box to
PROTECT Merlin, not to hurt him. The king escorted his confused friend into
the night, their destination unknown (HELLBLAZER # 114).
In the DC Universe
proper, Merlin spenta number of years as the captive of Neron (WONDER WOMAN #
124) while a "weak and aged" incarnation of himself from another time period
had appeared in his place. The older Merlin had been discovered
"accidentally" by Morgaine Le Fay, who explained in WONDER WOMAN # 132 that
"making the old wizard my slave was easy enough ... as was tricking Jason
Blood into accepting this version of Merlin as the one he had so loyally
served. For years he worked his secret wiles upon my enemy (1987's DEMON #
1-4, 1989's ACTION COMICS # 638-641 and 1990-1993's DEMON #1, 4-7, 11, 19-20,
35, 38-39). Then it took no more than a bit of reverse psychology for Merlin
to trick Blood into imbibing a special potion (1994's DEMON # 51), a potion
Blood believed would FREE his mind of the shackles of muddled memory, but
which, in fact, created there the ARTIFICIAL MEMORIES I knew would one day
make the Demon serve ME (1994's DEMON # 0).
"With Etrigan subtly
corrupted over long years it was easy enough to create all manner of
subterfuges, from causing him to believe his friend was transformed (1990's
DEMON # 4) to making Etrigan think himself Merlin's brother (1991's DEMON #
19) and one of the high ones of the netherworlds. The only negative result of
this was his propensity to speak in rhyme."
In a final battle in
Neron's underworld, Morgaine Le Fay was killed by Requiem and the good Merlin
shoved his evil counterpart into a pit of hellfire, seemingly killing them
both and breaking the spell that had compelled Etrigan to do evil for so
long. When Mike Schorr recalled that the wizard claimed to have existed "at
all the times of his life simultaneously," Requiem replied that "perhaps we
have seen but two MOMENTS of a long life snuffed out. Only time will tell
..." (WONDER WOMAN # 135)
The gargantuan Crown of
Horns was awarded to Etrigan in 1990's DEMON # 7 when the Demon briefly held
the post of King of Hell. The silver-gray Crown had at least three sets of
horns and was "for untold aeons the symbol of Hell's number one ruler." It
also gave its owner great power, as was evident when a separated Jason Blood
stole the crown from Etrigan and used it against him, firing emerald energy
at the Demon. The Crown was knocked from Jason's head during the battle and
remained in Hell when Merlin's magic sent them home.
There is, frankly, no
evidence that the Lord Demon Biis ever existed outside the legends of St.
Dumas and the mind of Carleton LeHah, "a money man with no past, who's been
trafficking in arms and exotic ammunition." LeHah had financed his empire
with money stolen from the Swiss bank account of the Order of St. Dumas. When
the Order sent their angel of vengeance, Azrael, to deal with their fugitive
treasurer, the arms merchant murdered him (1992's BATMAN: SWORD OF AZRAEL #
1, by Dennis O'Neil, Joe Quesada and Kevin Nowlan).
While trying to kill Jean
Paul Valley, the new Azrael, in Switzerland, LeHah and his helicopter pilot
were caught in an avalanche and seemed destined to die. LeHah uttered the
name "Biis" three times, caught a glimpse of a face in the snow and, suddenly,
the damaged helicopter was able to make a relatively safe landing. While the
mystified pilot listened, LeHah claimed to see the visage of Biis in the
shadows on the snowy horizon and began to carry on a conversation with the
alleged demon and legendary opposite number of St. Dumas.
"Eh ? You would have me
be your servant ? I would be honored, great Biis. Prove my worthiness ? My
loyalty ? Certainly, great Biis." Before the pilot could react, LeHah had cut
off his head with a knife. "As you commanded, great Biis."
"When I had rested and
recovered from my ordeal," LeHah recalled, "I made purchases -- and then,
returning to my quarters, I set about fashioning my vestments. The followers
of Azrael served him by donning his apparel. Very well. I would serve YOU,
Azrael's greatest enemy, by clothing myself in the garments of -- the Lord
Demon Biis!" Dressed in robes and metal of blue and gray, LeHah painted his face like a
skull and wore a horned helmet. He was heavily arms with guns and other
powerful weapons (SWORD OF AZRAEL # 2).
While seeking the
villain, Bruce Wayne was drugged and fought LeHah while seeing Biis as the
arms merchant must have. The reptilian demon of Bruce's drug-hazed vision was
blue-green with wings, horns, a darting tongue and multi-faceted green eyes.
Wayne awoke to find himself bound to a chair and staring at
Biis-by-way-of-LeHah -- who now knew him as The Batman (SWORD OF AZRAEL # 3).
LeHah took Wayne to his
Texas oil refinery and had begun wearing the mantle of the Bat "to sow
confusion and discord." Taking advantage of his captor's state of mind, Bruce
suggested that, in doing so, LeHah had "dishonored" Biis. "I'd have to
question your loyalty. I'd wonder if if you weren't courting the demon I
serve, instead of Biis."
"Your ... demon ?"
"Some would say I've been
riding one since I was eight years old."
Bruce finally prodded
LeHah into attempting to kill him as a sacrifice to Biis. In the ensuing
conflict, the refinery was set ablaze. Wayne and Azrael escaped the inferno
but LeHah, still calling on his master, appeared to perish (SWORD OF AZRAEL #
In fact, the arms
merchant had escaped but spent six months in the hospital as he recovered
from his burns and injuries. Upon his return to his mansion, LeHah gazed into
a mirror and Biis stared back. At the demon's command, LeHah again assumed
the guise of Biis (1996's AZRAEL # 13). LeHah sent a war machine after Azrael
only to have the angel of vengeance destroy it. Biis was furious his pawn
"sent a machine to destroy an avenging angel" and demanded to take possession
of LeHah's body. "Give me dominion over your soul and we will destroy forever
the angel and the man who burdens him."
"Biis" attacked Azrael in
the halls of his home, using ancient weapons such as the cross-bow, axe and
spear to fight him. Herding the villain into the refrigerated locker where
LeHah had feasted on raw meat, Azrael used his sword to shred Biis' costume
and metaphorically exorcize the demon (AZRAEL # 14). LeHah was left
imprisoned in the freezer but escaped within a day and still plotted
vengeance. One look at Azrael and the weaponless villain turned tail and ran
(AZRAEL # 16).
posted November 06, 2000 11:54 AM
Wow. Thank you, John.
Gotta disagree with you
about DCU and Vertigo, though. I'm one of the ever-decreasing lot that still
refuse to see them as separate universes/timelines. Most of the Vertigo-DCU stories
can still be squeezed into the mainstream-DCU continuity. (If one wants, that
is. If you don't want to, you don't have to.)
When it comes to
mythological creatures as Zeus or Cupid, I go with the Gaiman-Sandman
explanation and see different aspects of them represented in different
situations (and therefore, different titles). They exist mainly because of
their worshippers' faith in them. They are basically just myths, stories. And
as such, their incarnations on Earth and other planes can vary. (That's the
reason, for example, why Baldur could appear with Thor and Loki in JLI, even
though he was supposed to have been killed by Loki aeons ago.)
As for Merlin, I just
guess that he split into more than two incarnations/aspects when Neron held
him captive. Or that he just showed the Hellblazer readers a destructive part
of his personality that we don't normally get to see (thankfully, I guess).
That's just the way I'd
prefer it to be, though. I wont force my theories into any others' throats.
It's just fiction after all. Hypertime, paralel Earths, different timelines,
evil twins, untrue legends, and f**ked-up continuity work as explanations,
too. For those who even need an explanation, that is.
I have a feeling that this will be your Hell biography as much as mine. Not that I mind.
posted November 06, 2000 05:41 PM
The fact that
the Gods in the Vertigo and DCU books could be different aspects of the same
being occurred to me after I posted last night. It's a perfectly valid
explanation. I'm still not sure what to make of the multiple fates of Merlin
and King Arthur though, if I ever do a full-scale bio on either of them, I
might figure something out.
Today's topic ...
"There are four pillars
of power in the world of magic -- and already I possess THREE of them: I'm a
PERSON of power -- dwelling in a PLACE of power -- holding an OBJECT of
power, the Reliquary of St. Denys. But still I need the WORDS of power ..."
-- Greeramada (ARAK, SON OF THUNDER # 18).
At at indeterminate point
during the 8th Century, a wizard named Malagigi found that his energies were
spent after an exhausting exercise of magic elsewhere in Paris.
Seeking lodging for himself and the warrior-woman Valda, the mage sought out
an old lover who still lived in the city. Her home stood "upon the selfsame
ground where the ancients once made sacrifices to nameless gods ... and
where, later, the Romans erected their altar to Jupiter. ... And now there's
a Christian church beside her house. ... 'Tis a place of power ... and always
The gray-haired Malagigi
was greeted warmly by his old flame, Greeramada, whose own long red hair and
skin had escaped the ravages of age. As the trio settled down for the night
and the old man dozed off, Greeramada related the story of the imminent Denys
Day to Valda. The remains of the decapitated holy man were kept in a nearby
Abbey "in a fabulous jeweled Reliquary" that was annually removed from the
vault and placed "on the processional bier for the morning's mass and
The red-haired sorceress
convinced Valda that the treasures were in danger of being stolen by the
rogue named Brunello and, as predicted, the Iron Maiden found the thief in
the Abbey. Returning to Greeramada's home with Brunello, Valda was horrified
to learn that he had already had the Reliquary and that the flame-haired
sorceress planned to use its power for her own.
Years earlier, Malagigi
and Greeramada had separated when he refused to help her amplify her magic
might. After her lover's departure, the woman searched elsewhere and
eventually struck a bargain with parties unknown. Waving her arms, Greeramada
began to change, her flesh growing pale and her facial features taking on the
aspect of a vampire. Simultaneously, her pair of pet leopards were
transformed into violet-colored gargoyles, "only their spots remaining
unchanged." They were (according to the first caption in ARAK # 18) "the
devil's own brood."
She sought the spell that
would bring St. Denys back to life and "bind to her service the powers of
Heaven as well as the Hellish ones " (1982's ARAK # 17, by Roy & Dann
Thomas, Adrian Gonzales and Alfredo Alcala). Malagigi defied the villainess,
vowing that "mystic secrets and arcane chants ... I do not share with
bat-winged demons, Greeramada -- nor with Hell-spawned witches ... such as
YOU have become."Pretending to whisper the spell, the mage instead used the
opportunity to bite off his ex-lover's left ear. The enraged sorceress had
bewitched Valda and threatened to kill her if Malagigi failed to comply.
Reluctantly, the old man spoke the words of the incantation.
On the Mount of Martyrs,
Greeramada and Valda found the reanimated St. Denys, carrying his head in his
hand. Valda regained her senses just as they returned to Greeramada's place
of power and thrust her sword into the sorceress' stomach, impaling her on
her front door. "Yet, evil which has survived for long millennia dies neither
swiftly -- nor easily." Mystic fire burst from the evil one's mouth, freezing
Valda in her tracks and leaving her at the mercies of St. Denys -- who picked
up his head and threw it at Greeramada.
"St. Denys" was actually
Malagigi, with Brunello perched on his shoulders. The mage had given his old
lover a false spell and used the tainted food she'd prepared to immobilize
her gargoyles. "The dying Greeramada (became) the beautiful woman she (had)
seemed for centuries -- for the last time" and cursed Malagigi with her last
breath. With that, she was implied to have disintegrated with a fiery
discharge, the smoke from which rose to the balcony above her and transformed
the still-frozen gargoyles into stone.
"And perhaps it is the memory of these dire events which will haunt this spot
in years to come, even when a far-famed cathedral rises upon it -- the
Cathedral of Notre Dame -- until later sculptors will come and refashion
their images, to sit strangely upon the sky-reaching parapets of a most
Christian place of power" (ARAK # 18).
There are many legends
about how the gargoyles of Notre Dame came to be. This is one of them.
posted November 07, 2000 05:13 PM
Father Jonathon Bliss intended to save the world from itself, teach it "that
much-needed lesson" that would put the human race back on the path of
righteousness." Simply put, he intended to trigger Armageddon.
His flock had long since
abandoned his rural Louisiana church but Bliss found reason for optimism when
the creature known as the Swamp Thing wandered into his life late in 1974.
Far more trusting than he should have been, the former Alec Holland allowed
his sympathy for the old man to blind him from the truth until Father Bliss
had begun an incantation that placed the creature in a hypnotic state.
Almost simultaneously, a
local man named Luke and the Swamp Thing's friends Matt Cable and Abby Arcane
neared the church and were promptly captured by the creature himself. The
trio awoke to find themselves prisoners before Bliss, Swamp Thing and a
floating red-orange sphere whose glow revealed the spirit of Alec Holland
"You see," Bliss
explained, "the globe is sort of a way station between worlds. It was
necessary in summoning forth Nebiros -- the demon who now possesses your
monstrous friend's body ... The dark ones can't exist in this dimension without
a host body. And since mortal frames are so puny -- I'm afraid Nebiros
insisted on, er, borrowing that of your unfortunate Mr. Holland."
By summoning Nebiros and
unleasing Armageddon, Bliss believed that God would reveal himself. "Don't
you see ? It's so simple. With God manifest once more, people will HAVE to
believe." A stunned Cable pointed out that "after that kind of holocaust, no
one will be left ALIVE to believe."
As Nebiros (via Swampy)
tore the soul from Luke and devoured it, Cable desperately tried to convince
Bliss of the truth. "You're trying to make man's choice FOR him.
Can't you see, you over-zealous maniac -- you're putting yourself ABOVE God!"
As Nebiros turned to pluck the soul from Cable, the words "Nebiros tophet
tllohim ..."sounded behind his back. Finally cognizant of his horrendous
misdeed, Bliss completed the spell of exorcism only to find that Nebiros'
hold on the creature's body was too strong.
Elsewhere, Abby Arcane
screamed at the freed Matt Cable to smash the fiery globe. In the instant
after the orb was shattered, Nebiros emerged from Swamp Thing's body,
revealed to possess the trademark red skin, cloven hooves, horns and blank
yellow eyes of a demon. The battle between Nebiros and Swamp Thing was
curtailed when the devil begin to disintegrate. Desperate to find sanctuary,
he accepted Bliss' offer to serve as his new host. His dream's of glory came
to a quick end when the new body erupted into flame. With Bliss' vessel too
fragile to contain the dark power, Nebiros died a fiery death. Grasping
control of his body in the instant before its death, Father Bliss cried
"Forgive ... me ..." (SWAMP THING # 15, by David Michelinie and Nestor
Almost a decade later,
another Nebiros escaped from an incarceration of six thousand years when
actors Wayne Tarrant and Sharon Scott unwittingly freed him from his prison
on the remote Ile du Diable. The giant, insect-like brown demon rampaged
across the island, terrorizing the film crew with its colossal strength and
"raking claws" and vowing to eat the humans. Nebiros reserved his demonic
eye-blasts for his most persistent opponent, a stuntman named Dan Cassidy,
who fought the evil one while dressed as the film's lead character, the Blue
Devil. Cassidy ultimately lured Nebiros back into the portal that brought him
to Earth but, in the aftermath, discovered that the occult blasts had made
the Blue Devil costume a part of his body (1984's BLUE DEVIL # 1, by Gary
Cohn & Dan Mishkin, Paris Cullins and Pablo Marcos; reprised in 1988's SECRET
ORIGINS # 24, also by Cohn & Mishkin).
Seeking a way to return
himself to normal, Cassidy eventually came in contact with Zatanna, who
researched Nebiros' history in a tome from her father's library. "Ages ago --
before the dawn of history -- he was worshipped on Earth by a very warlike
race. They sacrificed maidens to him and in return he led their armies to
conquer many lands. Eventually, Nebiros's empire grew so vast that it
threatened the other great powers of the time -- Mu, Atlantis, Lemuria. Their
greatest mages banded together to defeat him. They vanquished the armies,
destroyed the civilization, and banished the demon to his own dark dimension.
On Earth, all traces of Nebiros sank beneath the waves -- except for the
island you met him on, six thousand years later."
Only Nebiros could
reverse the spell that had trapped Dan in the costume so Zatanna teleported
herself and Blue Devil to Ile du Diable and sent the stuntman into the
demon's home dimension. Nebiros seemed genuinely delighted to see his "little
brother," still convinced that their battle on Earth had been a
misunderstanding. He'd even believed that the mechanical trident that Dan
used to send him back to his dimension had been a gift, one that "a spell of
enchantment empowered ... to control mystic energies formerly beyond Nebiros' grasp."
The demon was baffled by
Blue Devil's request to return to human form and grabbed Dan in his giant
hand. "Clearly you are deluded. And Nebiros must cure you of this madness ...
else there is no loyalty among demons. Come, little brother. We will ravage
the Earth together -- and you will return to your senses. Behold the mystic
portal. Joyous mayhem and rapine await us!"
A brief scuffle ensued
between Nebiros and Zatanna, who correctly deduced that water could affect
the demon ("Nebiros's dimension is a waterless one ... and the ancients built
the gateway to his realm on an island."), but he soon realized he could fly
above the water with the enhanced trident (BLUE DEVIL # 4). In Mexico, the
monster excavated his "secondary temple" and opened a gateway to his
dimension to release "a Hellish horde to bedevil." Ironically, it was that
portal that ultimately allowed the Blue Devil, using the recovered trident,
and Zatanna to exile Nebiros once again (BD # 5).
Several weeks later, the
trident was revealed to contain a fiery demon from Nebiros' dimension. Blue
Devil was briefly possessed by the entity before Zatanna attempted to expel
it. The demon attempted to take refuge in the form of a normal human -- film
executive Jock Verner -- but, like Father Bliss, his body was too weak to
sustain the demon. Verner escaped unscathed but the entity dissolved. "With
its passing, the unholy link between your trident and Nebiros's plane has
been destroyed as well" (BD # 13).
In 1993, Blue Devil's
battle with Galaxa had the secondary effect of temporarily weakening the
barrier between Earth and Nebiros' plane. The demon escaped to Earth,
delighted that his "little demon brother" had freed him (SHOWCASE '93 # 4-5).
Nebiros arrived at Dan's beach house in the hope that he and his sibling
could go out for a little snack. As Dan used his trident to shoo police
officers (and potential appetizers) away, Nebiros observed that "it is good
when they fear you, brother. But aim better next time -- and remember that
Nebiros likes his meat rare!"
In the end, Dan tricked
the demon into being teleported to the planet Maldor, whose scientists had
been attempting to kidnap and dissect the Blue Devil. BD's "big brother" was
delighted. "O joy! O rapture! Nebiros's little brother spoke truly after all.
Here are victuals to delight the eye ... and feed the gnawing hunger of a
demon"(SHOWCASE '93 # 6, by Cohn & Mishkin, Pete Moriarty and Dan Davis).
By 1995, the Maldorians
had exiled Nebiros to Hell (or some offshoot dimension), where he made an
unsuccessful attempt to wrest control of a portal to Earth from Nekron (FATE
# 12-13, by Len Kaminski, Anthony Williams and Andy Lanning).
In 1999, during the "Day
of Judgment" that unleashed the dead onto Earth, Nebiros agreed to remain
behind to defend Hell's fire pits in the City of Dis. Now displaying a speech
pattern not unlike a late-20th Century North American, he blocked the path
the mage Faust and a collection of heroes that included Zatanna. Holding a trident
like Blue Devil once possessed, he revealed that "the king of lies himself
has lent me his unholy trident to swallow your souls. And as soon as you
heroes are destroyed, I'll be able to ditch this barren wasteland and join
the party upstairs" (DAY OF JUDGMENT # 3).
Faust countered by
reviving the recently slain Blue Devil and allowing the two enemies to have
at it. Ultimately, Firestorm defeated the demon by transforming "the water in
his body into cement" (DAY OF JUDGMENT # 4, by Geoff Johns, Matt Smith,
Christopher Jones and Steve Mitchell).
posted November 08, 2000 08:41 PM
And completing the questions ...
He was first seen in the
year 2012, the "servant" to Earth's magical opener, an adult Timothy Hunter
(1994's BOOKS OF MAGIC # 5, by John Ney Rieber and Peter Snejbjerg). In
truth, Barbatos, the naked bald demon with light blue flesh and the
dimensions of a child, was no man's attendant. "I pretended to be his master,
once," the elder Tim noted. "Half my LIFE, I pretended ... one pretends
things like that, when one's a slave" (BOM # 19).
Barbatos was, in truth, a
resident of Hell, "Duke of the Ninth Circle, and Ambassador to the Earthly
Realm" (BOM # 73). He'd won his control over Hunter with the simple exchange
of "a few bits and snippets of (Tim's) memory. ... ALL the bargains the
demons had proposed -- at the time, they seemed such ... BARGAINS. Still, one
can't help but wonder, at a time like this. Perhaps the fallen ones really
HAD known what they were about. Perhaps one's memories WERE worth something
after all" (BOM # 5).
Using an hourglass that
he wore as a necklace, Barbatos had meddled in the affairs of the Tim Hunters
of other, earlier timelines, observing the Hunter of the mainstream DC
Universe in one (BOM # 5, 8) and unwittingly fueling the rage of a murderous
doppleganger in another (1999's BOM ANNUAL # 3).
In the present-day of the
mainstream DCU, Barbatos tricked the angel Araquel into becoming his servant
(BOM # 15) and held his wife and daughter hostage to insure his obedience.
Aware that young Tim had many protectors, Barbatos demanded that Araquel pose
as a demon and distract figures such as John Constantine for a twenty-four
hour period. Elsewhere, he arranged for Tim's girl friend Molly O'Reilly to
be abducted to Hell, certain that the boy would follow her (# 16).
In 2012, the elder Tim
took advantage of Barbatos' absence to seek an escape and requested help from
the mystic Mister Chiang. Transforming into the reptilian creature of myth,
Chiang observed that Tim "would make an excellent dragon" (BOM # 17)based on
the fact that he was "prideful. Self-absorbed. Avaricious. Reclusive" (# 18).
Meanwhile, at the Babel Auditorium on 666 Broadway, Barbatos was delivering
the keynote address at a shareholders meeting. "For the first time in
infernal history, it is within our power to expand the boundaries of Hell --
OR, as those of us who have learned to command the unholy power of the
buzzword say, to redefine our presence in the global marketplace."
Noting that a contented
human was "impervious to your friend and mine, temptation," Barbatos proposed
the creation of Happy Crisps, "everything you've ever wanted in one easy-open
bag. ... They're FREE, they're FILLING, they're available in a bewildering
variety of flavors. All nutritionally worthless and HIGHLY addictive. Each
bag comes COMPLETE with an illusory self-destructive lifestyle" (BOM # 18).
At the same time, young
Tim had finally been reunited with Molly and the two shared a lingering kiss.
One of Barbatos' servants crashed the auditorium with the horrifying news
that LOVE had come to hell. In a heartbeat, Barbatos' audience was gone.
Araquel arrived in the empty chamber, considering but rejecting the
possibility of slaying the demon. The elder Tim, now a dragon, was the next
to make an entrance, assuring the angel that his wife and child were safe and
With the appearance of
young Tim and Molly, Barbatos cast a final spell to defeat them by trapping
them all within the pages of a magic book of fairy tales (BOM # 19).
Within the book, Tim created a giant mechanical knight that held Barbatos in
its grip while he located Molly and Sir Timothy the Dragon. The elder Tim had
revealed the sad details of his enslavement by the demon and Molly made a
specific demand of his young counterpart upon their reunion: "You've got to
promise me that you won't say another WORD to ... demons. Or LISTEN to them. EVER.
That you'll just leave Barbatos here." Tim swore to do so and the couple
faded back to Earth, leaving Barbatos behind, still in the grip of the metal
man (BOM # 20).
learned of the realm of Faerie "and escaped to the land of his dreams ...
aided, he learned later, by the power of a mystical Twilight Gem" worn by
Ibbit, a simple-minded giant frogman in the magic land. The being became
Barbatos' new "master." The demon quickly embarked on a new scheme, abducting
the people of Faerie and selling them on Earth's realm as action figures
while keeping King Auberon for himself. When one of the beings came into
Molly O'Reilly's possession, she agreed to travel to the other dimension to
end the plot (1999's BOOK OF FAERIE: MOLLY'S STORY # 2, by Rieber and Hermann Mejia).
Eventually, Barbatos was
confronted by Briar Rose, a woman with designs of her own on the demon's
"little Hell-away-from-Hell." Rose informed the demon that she knew he'd only
kidnapped Auberon "because you believe you can use his soul to barter your
way back into Hell. ... I'LL send you back to Hell -- ALL EXPENSES PAID! ...
But WAIT! There's MORE! Act NOW to take advantage of this special offer, and
you WON'T be going back to Hell EMPTY-HANDED. You'll ALSO receive at NO extra
charge, yours to TORMENT for ALL ETERNITY -- the SOUL of Molly O'Reilly." A
deal was struck (BOF: MS # 3).
Ultimately, Queen Titania
defeated Briar Rose while Molly herself defeated Barbatos by transforming his
"master" Ibbit into an ordinary frog. The Twilight Gem fell from the
simpleton's body and Barbatos' link to Faerie was severed. "Well, so much for
this year's toy fair," the disgusted demon sighed. "But there will be other
times, other chances for revenge ... other retail markets to conquer ... Take
a memo, Barbatos ... Re: Next master ... no more frogs." And with that, he
faded back to his prison in the fist of the iron giant (BOF: MS # 4).
It was around this time
that the Barbatos of the present-day finally surfaced on Earth, accompanied
by a mutilated bondage victim known as Hauptman (BOM # 65, by Peter Gross).
In his capacity as Ambassador of the Earthly Realm, the demon was invited to
a meeting of the Other (BOM # 68), the evil Tim Hunter whom Barbatos' future
self had unwittingly sent on his path of death and destruction (BOM ANNUAL #
3). When this incarnation of Barbatos failed to recognize him, the Other cast
the demon back into Hell (BOM # 68).
Intrigued by Tim Hunter,
Barbatos set out to find the Other's counterpart, explaining to Hauptman that
"with an Opener at my disposal ... I'd control access to all the realms, I'd
know all the best creatures. I'd be invited to all the parties." In short, he
declared, "I'd bring middle management to Hell" (BOM # 69).
A bartering session with
Tim's step-brother, Cyril Ransome, revealed the teenager's general
whereabouts (BOM # 69) and Barbatos finally located his prey near the
other-dimensional Inn Between Worlds. The demon offered Tim the power to
defeat the Other but the young man pointedly refused, vowing never to sell a
memory. When Barbatos expressed confusion ("sell a memory ?"), Tim suddenly
realized that "you HAVEN'T met me before, have you ? You're the Barbatos from
NOW -- not the one from the future who keeps coming back. YOU don't know me
at all -- but I know YOU! HAH -- this is too good. You don't even know how
bad you're going to muck it up!" With the teenager's insults ringing in his
ears, a sheepish Barbatos fled back to Hell (BOM # 70).
After Tim became the Lord
of the Wild Hunt, he used the powers at his command to track down Barbatos in
Hell, capture him and demand that they bargain for the power to defeat the
Other. Tim refused to sell a memory but Barbatos persisted. "That's what
demons do -- the price MUST be a memory. Flay the skin from my bones and feed
it to your hounds and the price will STILL be a memory. Bargain with a
THOUSAND demons and the price will be the same." With great reluctance, Tim
accepted (BOM # 73).
Once the Other was on the
brink of defeat, Tim permitted Barbatos to close the deal. "One simple memory
in exchange for the power to defeat your Other," he purred. "The memory of
how you made the Other. Without it, he cannot exist." The Other disappeared
in a burst of energy and a disoriented Tim blindly followed in Barbatos'
footsteps. "The price of selling a memory to a demon" was the loss of one's
soul (BOM # 74).
Forty years later,
Barbatos, still in the grip of a giant metal hand, was located on the outskirts
of the Dreaming and returned to Hell. The grand welcome that he'd anticipated
did not materialize. Instead, he was mocked and dismissed as a joke. Hauptman
had acquired his old position as Grand Duke of the Ninth Circle. To his
horror, Barbatos learned that he'd "been possessed ... by a human. A homely
boy with spectacles and a mop of brown hair ... who insists on treating
others with kindness. ... You bartered with a human and lost control of his
soul, Barbatos. Now it threatens to completely possess you -- and all the
exorcists in Hell cannot pry it out."
deportation to Heaven, Barbatos used his hourglass to travel back in time to
that fateful moment only to find that it was already too late. Tim had taken
possession of the demon's limbs.
"You were SO set on
taking one of my memories," the young mage explained, "that I knew there had
to be one memory in particular you wanted ... I guessed that it was the
memory of how I made the Other. Even if I couldn't remember it myself -- it
had to be in me somewhere. In that brief moment when I was whole and I could
use the magic -- I hid my soul there like a seed. When you swallowed my
memory -- you swallowed my soul. I created a thousand worlds without even
knowing I'd done it. Now all I had to do was create one last small world for
you and my empty body to live until it died.
Somewhere YOU could never hurt anyone. THAT'S where you've been the last
forty years, Barbatos. You never had me. I had you!"
Barbatos effectively died on a morning in the year 2000 and a naked Tim
Hunter rose in his place. The demon's body had been completely transformed
into a human being.
With the sad story of his 2012 counterpart now explained and behind him, Tim
believed that "I was free of destiny, free of fate, free of everyone who ever
tried to use me for their purpose." The threat of Barbatos was over (BOM # 75).
posted November 09, 2000 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Mikishawm:
Zilch, thanks for the annotation! Yep, the ADVENTURE COMICS appearances
are all in the Shining Knight series, mostly in episodes after Sir Justin was
able to travel back and forth through time.
Okay... i give up! When did Sir Justin gain the ability to travel through time?
He's got a pretty
interesting continuity... in Camelot, then in 1941, then back to Camelot,
then stuck with the Seven Soldiers in time, then back to the 20th Century,
then back with the JSA to Camelot... now back in the 21st Century ( well, in
a couple of months anyway! )
Off topic, yes... but like the punk in Dirty Harry "I gots to know, man!"
posted November 09, 2000 07:25 PM
In ADVENTURE # 107, King Arthur asked Merlin to determine just what ever
happened to the long-absent Sir Justin. The old wizard's spell brought him to
1946, where the Shining Knight declined an invitation to return to Camelot,
citing his newfound responsibilities in the 20th Century. In any event,
Arthur was pleased to hear that he was well.
In ADVENTURE # 124,
Merlin plucked Justin and Sir Butch from late 1947 to the days of old when
Arthur required the Shining Knight's presence. From that point on, Sir Justin
made regular jaunts to Camelot though always in tandem with Merlin's magic. A
1950 episode (# 159) involved an addled Merlin actually sending the Knight
and his squire to the 35th Century rather than the past.
(ADVENTURE # 159 was
reprinted in GREATEST 1950s STORIES EVER TOLD. For that and other Camelot
stories, also see the obscure 1983 reprint series, MASTERWORKS SERIES OF
GREAT COMIC BOOK ARTISTS # 1 and 2).
In the 1976 ALL-STAR
COMICS sequence, Justin had to find an alternate means of time-travelling
because Merlin had been mesmerized by Vandal Savage (disguised as King
After the fall of
Camelot, Justin (seemingly without Merlin's direct involvement) spent twenty
years in the time stream searching for the lost Swamp Thing (SWAMP THING # 87
posted November 10, 2000 10:31 PM
Wow. With all this info I might even have to divide the Hell profile into one on Hell
in general and several smaller demon and other hellish character profiles.
I can't wait. This is GREAT
posted November 16, 2000 05:05 AM
Does Trigon count or is he just an alien demon?
And what about the stuff in the 3 part Kid Eternity?
posted November 16, 2000 06:38 AM
I'll return with my "complete" Hellspawn list and will let you guys fill
in the blanks.
Trigon doesn't count. He
is a demon but not involved with Hell. Neither are the Parademons, M'nagalah,
Koth, the Dementor, or the Incubus and Succubus from the Nightshade realm.
posted November 16, 2000 10:13 AM
The next thing that I'd like some help with is a brief explanation of what happened to
Beelzebub (and his adjutant Major Domo) in the KID ETERNITY monthly. I bought
the early issues where he attempted to climb back to Heaven, and the ones
where he first encountered the kid. But then I dropped the series and lost
track of the Lord of Flies.
Also, Tim Hunter's demon
friend Alleatha (Leah) disappeared from the BoM series a couple of years ago.
Did she ever return to the life of Tim?
posted November 20, 2000 08:43 PM
Hi, Hellstone! I read this last week with the intention of returning with an
answer but it completely slipped my mind. Here they are:
"I'd like a brief
explanation of what happened to Beelzebub (and his adjutant Major Domo) in
the KID ETERNITY monthly. I bought the early issues where he attempted to
climb back to Heaven, and the ones where he first encountered the Kid. But
then I dropped the series and lost track of the Lord of Flies."
Beelzebub concluded that
evil had become mundane and that he would commit suicide, taking the world
with him (KID ETERNITY # 12). Kid Eternity made him an offer -- he would
"find five evil, malicious, truly repugnant men" in exchange for sparing
mankind. The Devil agreed (# 13). Ultimately, the Kid's mentor Ricketts
offered to fight the Devil instead ("You're no warrior. I'M a warrior.") but
was killed. As he died, he revealed that Beelzebub had no power and the Devil
prepared to lie down and die (# 15). The Kid's girlfriend Chelsea felt an odd
pity for the Devil and agreed to stay with him. Beelzebub asked her to kill
him ("Murder is the most intimate act.") but she refused and he concluded
that he'd "have to do it myself." The Kid and company retrieved Chelsea from
Hell, leaving the Devil's body behind (# 16). Major Domo last appeared in #
14, silently grieving for the dying Devil.
"Also, Tim Hunter's demon
friend Alleatha (Leah) disappeared from the BoM series a couple of years ago.
Did she ever return to the life of Tim?"
After appearing in BOOKS
OF MAGIC # 6-8 and 26-32, Leah returned in issue # 50, where she sucked Tim
into her magic box and put him through a rite of passage. In the end, she
released him. "I can't keep you here anymore. You can go back to your life.
Now that you understand the magic."
"Oh, look around, Tim,"
she said gesturing at the world within the box. "Do you think I made this
bogus place ? This is all you HAVE when you give up the magic. Because it's
not just some THING in your life. Your magic is YOU. Always HAS BEEN.
posted November 27, 2000 12:28 PM
Thank you so much.
Okay...I hope you'll
forgive me, Miki, but now I'm starting with the really anal completist questions.
Could you provide me with the first appearances of the following:
from BOOKS OF MAGIC:
Abaddon (although he's been in JLA and THE DEMON, I'd like to know the f.a.
of the BoM version)
Hauptmann (Barbatos´ aide)
Taik (the Abaddon-possessed son of Titania)
The Ribbon Queen
from THE DEMON:
Belial (I know he was in CAPTAIN MARVEL JR #4, but when did the version with
him as Etrigan's father appear?)
Lord Scapegoat (Etrigan's brother)
and finally, the first appearance of any pre-Crisis version of Lucifer (using that name).
posted November 27, 2000 08:55 PM
Well, I had appearances for everyone but Puzzlestick and a look through BOOKS OF
MAGIC failed to unearth him. If you can give me a general idea of where to
look, I'll try again. (Oh, and regarding the "Obscure Characters" thread,
where did Ur the Caveboy appear ?) Here's everyone else, though:
Abaddon -- BOOKS OF MAGIC # 35-37 (unnamed), 38
Hauptmann -- BOOKS OF MAGIC # 65
Taik -- BOOKS OF MAGIC # 28
Gout -- HELLBLAZER # 60
The Ribbon Queen -- HELLBLAZER # 62
Triskelle -- HELLBLAZER # 59
Baytor, Bloodklott and Kakk -- THE DEMON # 43
Belial -- THE DEMON (third series) # 2
Lord Scapegoat -- THE DEMON (third series) # 18
Lucifer appeared under
that name in Jimmy Olsen's nightmare in JIMMY OLSEN # 65, was impersonated by
the Phantom Stranger in THE BRAVE & THE BOLD # 98 and finally appeared
for real in DC SPECIAL SERIES # 8 (Brave & Bold Special).
posted November 28, 2000 04:11 AM
I'm almost done with the entry now...
...Uh, that is, at least until you see my list of DC demons and you reveal
that you know three thousand more of them...
posted January 17, 2001 11:13 AM
Boy, this takes time. I have too much
to do at work right now. I may also wait to conclude the bio until I've
read JLA: BLACK BAPTISM, JLA: SEVEN CASKETS, and THE SPECTRE #1.
Well, I'm still ALMOST finished with the information I HAVE. Now comes
the REAL challenge. I want your help to make the info complete. And at the
same time, I can make my "Demon List" official.
So, the question is, do you know any more DCU Demons than the ones on
my list? (remember that I ONLY want Demons of Hell, Hell's rulers,
half-demons, and outcasts from Heaven, OR at least the ones that can be
SUSPECTED to be such creatures. NOT the likes of Koth, the Dementor,
Trigon the Terrible, the Gothodaemon of Gotham City, Nekron, M´nagalah, or
the Para-Demons of Apokolips, who have never shown any connection to Hell
or similar realms.)
So, ladies and gentlemen and fellow DC nerds...here we go (next post):
At this point, really weird things started happening with this thread. Eventually,
Hellstone was forced to start a new thread called Hellstone's Guide to the DC Hell (long)
Topic: Hellstone's Guide to the DC Hell (long)
posted January 24, 2001 01:10 PM
After having my contributions to the last "Hell" post (see
) erased twice (the Devil's work, I'm sure), I'll try this again in a
brand new post:
My Hell Biography takes more time than I anticipated, since I have too
much to do at work right now. I'm ashamed but that's the way it goes. I
may also wait to conclude the bio until I've read JLA: BLACK BAPTISM, JLA:
SEVEN CASKETS, and THE SPECTRE #1.
I'm still ALMOST finished with the information I HAVE, though. Now
comes the REAL challenge. I want your help to make the info complete. My
"History of Hell" part is not ready to show yet. BUT, I can make my "Demon
List" official here and now.
The question is, do you know any more DCU Demons than the ones on my
list? Would you like to help me with it? (It's meant for publication
primarly at Kim Jensen's Unofficial DC Guide, and I promise I'll give
credit where credit is due.)
Remember that I ONLY want Demons of Hell, Hell's rulers, half-demons,
and outcasts from Heaven, OR at least the ones that can be SUSPECTED to be
such creatures. NOT the likes of Koth, the Dementor, Trigon the Terrible,
the Gothodaemon of Gotham City, Nekron, M´nagalah, the Avatar's
Ravanah-demons, or the Para-Demons of Apokolips, who have never shown any
connection to Hell or similar realms.
Other than that, anything goes. Almost.
So, ladies and gentlemen and fellow DC nerds...here we go:
Abaddon the Destroyer: JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA (Vol. 1) #49, 1966.
Abnegazar, Ghast, and Rath (The Demons Three): JUSTICE LEAGUE OF
AMERICA (Vol. 1) #10, March 1962.
Adramelech: (mentioned only:) BOOKS OF MAGIC (Vol. 2) #5, September 1994.
Agares: BOOKS OF MAGIC (Vol. 2) #5, September 1994.
Agony & Ecstasy: HELLBLAZER #12, December 1988.
Alleahta (Leah): BOOKS OF MAGIC (Vol. 2) #6, December 1990.
Anton Arcane: SWAMP THING (Vol. 1) #1, December 1972. Became a demon in
SWAMP THING (Vol. 2) #96, June 1990.
The Arkannone: HITMAN #3, October 1995.
Arrakhat: ROBIN (Vol. 2) #79, August 2000.
Asmodel: JLA #6, April 1997.
Asmodeus: CAPTAIN MARVEL JR #4, February 1943, (current version:)
VERTIGO VISIONS: PHANTOM STRANGER #1, 1993.
Asmodon: THE DEMON (Vol. 1) #10, July 1973.
Asteroth (Mr. Roth): THE DEMON (Vol. 2) #1, January 1987.
Azazel: THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #4, April, 1989.
Azgore: JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA (Vol. 1) #145, August 1977.
Azmodus: SHOWCASE (Vol. 1) #60, February 1966.
Aztar: (As the Spectre) MORE FUN COMICS #52, February 1940, (as Aztar)
THE SPECTRE (Vol. 3) #60, December 1997.
*Baphomet (Belphegor): ARAK, SON OF THUNDER (Vol. 3) #5
(is this issue number correct?)
Barbatos: BOOKS OF MAGIC (Vol. 2) #5, September 1994.
Baytor: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #43, January 1994.
Beelzebub: CAPTAIN MARVEL JR #4, February 1943, (current version:) THE
SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #4, April, 1989.
Belez: UNEXPECTED #205, December 1980.
Belial: CAPTAIN MARVEL JR #4, February 1943, (current version:) THE
DEMON (Vol. 3) #2, August 1990.
Biff O'Stoffles: SUICIDE SQUAD #52, August 1991.
Biis: (mentioned) BATMAN: SWORD OF AZRAEL #2, November 1992.
Blackjack McCullough: BLUE DEVIL #20, January 1986.
Blathoxi: HELLBLAZER #3, March 1988.
Bloodklott: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #43, January 1994.
Blaze (Angelica Blaze): (voice) SUPERMAN (Vol. 2) #34, August 1989
(seen) ACTION COMICS #655, July 1990.
Bliss: STARMAN (Vol. 2) #7, May 1995.
Blue Devil: THE FURY OF FIRESTORM #24, June 1984. Transformed into a
true demon in DAY OF JUDGMENT #4, November 1999.
Bolivar: SHOWCASE '96 #4 , April 1996.
Briadach: THE SANDMAN PRESENTS: LUCIFER #1, March 1999.
Buer: HELLBLAZER #92, August 1995.
Buzz (Buzz Aldrin): SUPERGIRL (Vol. 3) #1, September 1996.
Calibraxis (the Lord of Blades): HELLBLAZER #53, May 1992.
The Carnivore (Carreau, Carl Carnivean): SUPERGIRL (Vol. 3) #19, March 1998.
Cauldron: PLASTIC MAN (Vol. 1) #9, Autumn, 1947.
Cerberus: Possibly SANDMAN SPECIAL #1, 1991.
Chakat: SUPERGIRL (Vol. 3) #1, September 1996.
Chantinelle (Ellie): HELLBLAZER #43, July 1991.
*Charon: Possibly HERCULES UNBOUND #3, February/March 1976,
(current version:) WONDER WOMAN (Vol. 2) #1, February 1987.
Choronzon: (in shadows:) THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #1, January 1989, (fully
seen:) THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #4, April 1989.
Daemon: SUPERGIRL (Vol. 3) #13, September 1997.
Dark Conrad Constantine: SWAMP THING (Vol. 2) #111, September 1991.
The Demon Constantine: HELLBLAZER #96, December 1995.
"The Devil" and his wife: SMASH COMICS #36, October, 1942.
Dis: YOUNG JUSTICE #11, August 1999.
Etrigan: THE DEMON (Vol.1) #1, September, 1972.
The Evil One: WARLORD (Vol. 1) #49, September 1981.
The Fakir: ALL-FLASH COMICS #32, January 1948, revealed as a demon in
HAWKWORLD ANNUAL #1, 1991.
Festlesquirm: SAGA OF THE SWAMP THING ANNUAL #2, 1984 (also in
Grueflutter's Skyboat Crew).
The First of the Fallen: HELLBLAZER #42, June 1991.
Flutch: SAGA OF THE SWAMP THING ANNUAL #2, 1984.
Frank: SUPERGIRL (Vol. 3) #38, November 1999.
Gintear: GREEN LANTERN/SUPERMAN: LEGEND OF THE GREEN FLAME, 2000.
Golgotha: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #49, July 1994.
Goth (Limbo): TITANS #3, May 1999.
Gout: HELLBLAZER #60, December 1992.
Greeramada: ARAK, SON OF THUNDER #17, January 1983.
Grockk, the Devil's Son: ADVENTURE COMICS #486, July 1981.
Grueflutter and his Skyboat Crew (Festlesquirm, Prigsquatter, Smeglet,
Squanch): GREEN LANTERN/SUPERMAN: LEGEND OF THE GREEN FLAME, 2000.
*Harry the Pillow (Harry Matthews): THE DEMON (Vol. 1) ???, transformed
to a pillow in THE DEMON (Vol. 2) #3, March 1987. Exposed as a demon in
WONDER WOMAN (Vol. 2) #130, February 1998.
(what was Harry's original first appearance?)
Hauptmann: BOOKS OF MAGIC (Vol. 2) #65, October 1999.
Hellrazer: JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA (Vol. 1) #225, April
Iblis: JLA ANNUAL #4, 2000.
Kakk: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #43, January 1994.
Kamara: SAGA OF THE SWAMP THING #26, July 1984.
Karen Clancy (Casey): SAGA OF THE SWAMP THING #1, May 1982.
Karkaaz of Stygia: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #1, July 1990.
The Keeper of the Oracle of Styx: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #1, July 1990.
Ketele: THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #23, January 1991.
Kid Eternity's demons: HIT COMICS #25, December 1942, acknowledged in
KID ETERNITY (Vol. 2, miniseries) #3, 1991.
Kobal, Master of the Infernal Theatre: HELLBLAZER/BOOKS OF MAGIC #2, 1998.
Lady Smegma: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #43, January 1994.
*The Lilim: Possibly THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #40, June 1992.
*Lilith: Possibly THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #40, June 1992.
Lord Satanus (Collin Thornton): (as Thornton) ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN
#460, November 1989 (as Satanus) ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #655, July 1990.
Lord Scapegoat: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #18, December 1991.
Lucas: SUPERGIRL (Vol. 3) #44, May 2000.
Lucifer (Samael, Morningstar, Lightbringer): SUPERMAN'S PAL JIMMY OLSEN #65,
(current version): THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #4, April, 1989.
Lurgo: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #1, July 1990.
Madame Xanadu's demon servants: THE SPECTRE (Vol. 3) #35, November 1995.
Mahu: THE SANDMAN PRESENTS: LUCIFER #1, March 1999.
Major Domo: KID ETERNITY (Vol. 3) #1, May 1993.
Mammon: HELLBLAZER #3, March 1988.
The Many-Angled Ones: HITMAN #52, August 2000.
Master Man II: KID ETERNITY (Vol. 1) #15, May 1949.
The Mawzir: HITMAN #2, September 1995.
Mazikeen: THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #22, December 1990.
Merkin, Mother of Spiders: THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #24, February 1991.
Merlin (Myrddin): NEW COMICS #3, March 1936.
Mister Bleak: BOY COMMANDOS # 5, Winter, 1943.
(servant of Lord Satanus seen in current Superman comics, what was his first appearance?)
Mister Stubbs: SUPERGIRL (Vol. 3) #22, June 1998.
Mnemoth: HELLBLAZER #1, January 1988.
The Moonlings: TEEN TITANS (Vol. 1) #43, January-February 1973.
Morax, Bull-Beast of Stygia: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #1, July 1990.
Murmur: SUPERGIRL (Vol. 3) #33, June 1999.
Muttlecraunch: SAGA OF THE SWAMP THING ANNUAL #2, 1984.
Naamah (Naomi): VERTIGO VISIONS: PHANTOM STRANGER #1, 1993.
Nebiros: SWAMP THING (Vol. 1) #15, March-April, 1975.
Nergal (Black Nergal): MORE FUN COMICS #67, May 1941,
(current version:) HELLBLAZER #6, June 1988.
Neron: UNDERWORLD UNLEASHED #1, November 1995.
Norfulthing: HELLBLAZER #8, August 1988.
Nyx: STANLEY AND HIS MONSTER (Vol. 2) #1, February 1993.
Om: CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN (Vol. 1) #63, August 1968.
The Oracle of Styx: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #1, July 1990.
Petey: DR. FATE (Vol. 2) #1, January 1989.
The Poster Demon: STARMAN (Vol. 2) #4, February 1995.
*Puzzlestick: BOOKS OF MAGIC ????
(only heard about this one from fellow posters. any information?)
Raan Va Dath: THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #2, August 1990.
Raum: BOOKS OF MAGIC (Vol. 2) #5, September 1994.
Remiel & Duma, Angels of Hell: THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #24, February 1991.
The Ribbon Queen: HELLBLAZER #62, February 1993.
Rimmon-my-petal: THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #23, January 1991.
Rundlethratt: SAGA OF THE SWAMP THING ANNUAL #2, 1984.
"Satan" and the flying Dutchman: WHIZ COMICS #27, February 1942.
Satan Girl: SUPERGIRL (Vol. 3) #40, January 2000.
The Schichiriron: KID ETERNITY (Vol. 2, miniseries) #1, 1991.
The Second of the Fallen: HELLBLAZER #44, August 1991
Sekuba: THE SPECTRE (Vol. 3) #25, January 1995.
Shaitan: SHOWCASE #61, April 1966.
Soul Snatcher: THE DEMON (Vol. 1) #10, July 1973.
Squatterblot: THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #4, April 1989.
Stanley's Monster: THE FOX AND THE CROW #95, January 1966.
Tala: PHANTOM STRANGER (Vol. 2) #4, December 1970.
The Thing-That-Cannot-Die : THE DEMON (Vol. 3) #16, October 1991.
Exposed as a demon in WONDER WOMAN (Vol. 2) #130, February 1998.
The Third of the Fallen: HELLBLAZER #44, August 1991.
Toll: BOOKS OF MAGIC (Vol. 2) #18, November, 1995.
Torcher: HOURMAN #8, November 1999.
Triskelle: HELLBLAZER #59, November 1992.
Vuall (Vovall): BOOKS OF MAGIC (Vol. 2) #5, September 1994.
The Yuppie Demons (Bella Donna and Rodney Bubosganglia): HELLBLAZER #3,
- - - - -
EVENTS, OBJECTS, GEOGRAPHY, AND STUFF:
The American Gothic/Supernatural Crisis reached its climax in SWAMP
THING (Vol. 2) #49-#50 June-July 1986.
The Between City: SUPERGIRL (Vol. 3) #45, June 2000.
The Crown of Horns: THE DEMON (3rd) #7, November 1990.
The Day of Judgment started in DAY OF JUDGMENT #1, November 1999.
The Key to Hell: THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #23, January 1991.
Maps of Hell: KID ETERNITY (2nd, miniseries) #1, 1991.
The Triumvirate: (1st): THE SANDMAN (Vol. 2) #4, April, 1989, (2nd):
HELLBLAZER #44, August 1991.
- - - - -
If you can help me, I'd appreciate it. Thank you for taking your time.
posted January 24, 2001 07:19 PM
In Blue Devil's origin, we are told that Nebiros was banished into another
dimension "by the greatest mages" of that era. Who do you suppose those
mages were? The Leymen? Shazam? Dr. Mist? Merlin? Arion? Atlan?
posted January 24, 2001 10:43 PM
Nice work Hellstone!
I think I might have one you're missing:
Leviathan: (Secret Origins #10) cover date is Jan '87.
It's from Alan Moore's Phantom Stranger origin story... The issue
appeared post-crisis, about the time of the LEGENDS mini, and has an ad in
it for Matt Wagner's DEMON mini, so I guess it's within your parameters.
Hope you can use him.
posted January 25, 2001 10:31 AM
Very nice list Hellstone. Are you going to update with the histories that
you have as well? I sure hope so.
posted January 25, 2001 11:30 AM
Very nice, Hellstone.
And hopefully, no surprises of missing data this time.
But, a question I asked last time...
...have you been in contact with the folks at West End Games DCU RPG (I
would tend to think a list like this and the realms would be a godsend to
a Magic Sourcebook, or even a special "hell" book of its own...)
(And there is a DCU RPG posting with more info on the GA board and the
Other Batman Topics board. Just tell DEWLine, Scott or Fred that Dave the
Datalore sent ya.)
(And if I would have know I'd be here this long...I might have had
posted January 25, 2001 03:06 PM
Erm. As I mentioned before, there is at least one other demon not included
in this list. Naturally, I don't know if anyone actually cares, but the
Blasfemy: Anarky #1-2 (1994 mini-series)
Blasfemy is a tan demon mixing traits of a spider and human (spider
legs and abdomen, humanoid torso, mandibled head). The demon mindlessly
rant this it is God, demanding sacrifice. Blasfemy was summoned to Earth
by Anarky as bait to draw out the demon Etrigan, and briefly was in
servitude to Anarky, before being killed by Darkseid.
posted January 26, 2001 05:29 AM
Datalore - no I haven't yet, but it sounds interesting. Do you know how I
can make contact with them? An e-mail adress, maybe?
CNichols - thank you for the Blasfemy information.
posted January 26, 2001 09:40 AM
For anyone interested in West End Games (and specifically, their DCU RPG
and the sourcebooks...
West End Games DCU RPG:
(Even if you don't play the game...it is a nice collection of facts on the DCU!)